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so my father was a Lutheran Pastor my wife's father was a presbyterian Pastor in the Christian faith and uh so we do a lot of reading U on on on uh different topics topics around history um but also around our faith but also around cyber security so I love to read books I I'm always blogging and writing and and and podcasting like with you um so I really I enjoy um a lot of really great uh conversation with people like like yourself and um so I I really do try and read a lot if I possibly can but um encourage people to uh on Twitter I'm gov CSO um and I'm also on LinkedIn be happy to l with people feel free to reach out to me and uh and I'll link with you wonderful Dan thanks a lot this had been a fascinating conversation thank you for joining us well thank you for having me I really really enjoyed the conversation so have a great day thank youbut even back in2013 it started getting big 2014 2015 2019 you know I think it was for me it was the top story in state and local governments in the USA 2020 they say it doubled last year 100% and now it's going to even be worse in 2021 so my point is this that whole exercise we you know Homeland Security thought of that seven years before ransomware even became very big and then even 15 years before it's like the number one story so my message to to the people listening and to people watching us is you can learn a lot in these scenarios you can think through things and even think through what might come next and who knows you may even be predicting what's going to happen five years from now in cyber security because the bad guys are always looking for new ways to get into our our networks new ways to make money new ways to um to  extort money and and so we saw that way before ransomware became popular.