So um jumping on linkedin who do i know that works there or who do i know that used to work there why did someone leave especially if they're in the executive leadership capacity um you know things change and move movement around organizations is not uncommon but i start to really understand looking at the company's website what does their business do uh what what um investment tools do they have where where do they get their revenue from things like that really helps me start to understand what their business culture and business strategy looks like it at least what's available for on the public domain yeah and that's a very important part right i mean without knowing the organization and the business it's very hard to go and then uh figure out how to uh move around  absolutely and matthew you brought up some very interesting points and i found some of those to be a very interesting ones like for example you mentioned about the um inventory right so one of the challenges which i have uh noticed i don't know if you have seen um or face the same or not just knowing where data is who all has got data and how does the data flow i don't know kind of any organization who has kind of nailed this any large organization who has nailed this this such a hard problem right i mean there are of course many asset discovery  understand their language and that will help us to communicate a lot lot better so so great points uh matt which you made and um let's um close with a a few small things um interms of you you had been in the industry for a very very long time right so which which are some of these books or some of the podcasts or some of the people who really influenced you in your journey in in the cyber security field yeah i would say um what the the pivoting point in my career uh came from a mentor it's probably been 10 -15 years ago john petrie who's now the counselor to the ciso at ntt holdings in japan uh he was a manager of mine as a when he was a cso several companies ago  we used to as in the security industry we used to be afraid of or hunting down the shadow i.t organizations because shadow it was doing things in a non-standard way they may have intentionally been hiding and sliding around and preventing security controls that were this department of block right data is another challenge that we have and it's it's probably more our current challenge but there's a lot of lessons that i think we should have learned from shadow i t days and that is shadow data buckets right.